In my five years of training I have come to understand the spirit of Aikido as a peaceful option to violence. At the heart of Aikido is the ability to make the attacker and defender equals, so that there is no winner or loser. No one is beaten or injured (seriously), and the attacker sees the error of his/her ways.
Though Aikido is peaceful, it is not demure or submissive. For a technique to work, one must be aware of her surroundings. This includes the attacker(s) and the space in which you move. If you are unaware, the attacker will overcome you before you know what is happening. If you are unaware of the surroundings, you may trip and fall, or throw your attacker into a brick wall or off a cliff. (These are extreme examples.) I’ve heard spectators at Aikido demonstrations say that often they had trouble telling who attacked first. To me, this means that nage’s response to uke must take place at nearly the same time as uke commits to the attack.
Aside from a few Aikido novels, most of what I learned has been through training and listening to my instructors. Books are certainly useful, but they are purely supplementary. It is impossible to truly understand Aikido without doing it.
grassHopper: Just use your katana. 🙂
Mixing and matching martial art assumptions can be fun! Let’s see…
What if the trained boxer finds himself squared off against an armed Marine? Whose martial art is deadlier? (Hint: It’s not the boxer.)
The few, The proud‘s.
MM is right, I have a glass jaw, so I can’t take ANY blows square to my jaw. I had dislocated my jaw when I was a kid, and it was ether never set quite right or else it is just a byproduct of being knocked loose, but any who my jaw is not well connected. This stopped me from any serious thoughts of going into the sport, but if I could… I would. I have never spared. One of my closer friends in high school was involved in an amateur league for a while. Our school didn’t have a boxing program so, he used to do his road work with us track and field nerds and lift weights with and do hitting drills at the gym. He retired about a year and a half ago because he could not make a living at it and it took too much of his time. I am an avid spectator and enthusiast, I guess, but I could never go in without having to eat nothing but pudding and mashed potatoes for a few months again.
i know where to hit incogneto now if he ever tries to attack me in a dark alley…
incogneto, let’s touch base about the UNF dojo. I want to get up to speed. Thanks.
sparred a boxer once…beat my arms to jelly, but the same can be said for his shins.
I was able to keep him back with my kicks but maaannn, if one of his punches were to of landed i would of been gone..
The Dark Knight is exactly right. There is no superior martial art, there is only superior in a given situation. A boxer would win in a sanctioned boxing match because that is what they do, and they are good at it. A Sameria would win in a duel with katanas because that is their thing. Neither is objectively better because it depends upon the situation. It is like argueing that painting is a better art form than dancing because a dancer can’t paint.
Jerry, I sent you an email last night and I will be in class tonight. See ya then.
You should get that Sameria checked out by a doctor.
🙂
He gave me Sameria
…he said he loved me. :'(
You guys have a dirty mind. Sameria sounds more like an Italian dish…
It sounds like “Samaria” to me; the place between Judea and Galilee.
Can we have italian tonight?
When Kanai Sensei was an uchi deshi he was known to go out on the street and mix it up and he wrote once that ‘punches don’t work; iriminage, that works.’
I think Aikido has very direct and relevant street application. It’s not simply an esoteric art form, like tai chi. There are many reasons I train, but one very real and very valid reason is that I am learning a very real and very effective self defence, as opposed to viewing it like Iaido or kenjutsu.
Not just Kanai Sensei, Yamada Sensei too, or so I’ve heard.
Far be it for me to tell anyone why they should train. There are many reasons people get on–and stay off–the mat. I don’t want to get in a drawn out discussion about this, so two quick points.
First, I think you’re spot on regarding the martial (and non-martial) application of Aikido principles. We agree on this point.
However, consider Aikido attacks, as taught to us by the shihans.
Would an unarmed person on the street strike to the hardest part of the human body, as in shomenuchi? With an open hand? Doesn’t this strike make more sense, martially, in the context of an armed attack? Say, a sword cut?
Or take morotetori. It is not a correct answer to say: “Well, after grabbing your arm with both hands, uke may follow it up with a kick.” Why do I say this? Because the shihans do not teach it this way. Unless you believe the shihans are teaching the attack incorrectly, (which obviously you don’t–a rhetorical question on my part), then the question arises:
What is uke really trying to do here? Obviously, giving up both hands to restrain one arm makes little sense…unless, say, that arm is about to draw a dangerous weapon. Like a sword.
One more example, among many. Tsuki. In a street fight, do you really expect uke to overcommit his strike in order to disembowel nage? Of course not. Unarmed, the attacker would most likely jab and withdraw. Armed with a knife, you would expect slashing strikes and feints.
Again, unless you believe that we’ve been taught incorrectly by the shihans, the question again is: Who on earth attacks like that? Well, a person armed with a spear would.
Again, the unarmed version of a weapons strike practiced by…wait for it…the samurai!
Like I said, however, your reasons for training are your own and are certainly no less valid than mine.
And besides, when was the last time you were in a street fight?
If you measure the worth of a martial art by its “street” practicality, any martial art, including Aikido, would have a vanishingly small return. And this is true even if I were to agree that Aikido attacks represent real world attacks.
However, the beauty of Aikido is that its relevance is not tied to street brawls. When I see people ask this question, (not you Buck), they are missing the forest for the trees.
The correct question they should be asking is this: In the entirety of my daily experience, how is my Aikido training relevant? In the vanishingly small world of street fighting, the answer is “None.”
In the much larger world of human interaction, such as dealing with a demanding boss (tenkan, perhaps?), or a feud at home (kokyunage, maybe?), or even in other physical activity, the answer is “Everything.”
Just because our attacks on the mat are physical, doesn’t mean they are inapplicable to other types of aggression, verbal or otherwise.
And just because the attacks are not intended to resemble modern day fights, doesn’t mean they are worthless.
We are practicing budo. The real training is internal.
Peace, brother.
Are you saying, then, that aikido can be applicable to every and any life circumstance?
Another question: If your boss is demanding and unreasonable, why do you choose to respond with respect and kindness instead of being disrespectful?
Grasshopper; good book: Dale Carnegie: “How to win friends and influence people.” It was written in the 30’s, but it is basically verbal and social aikido. It explains exactly why being respectful and kind to a rude boss works, and works best for your prosperity. I was made to read this book in college. The art of not using force against force in the work place is also what I learned in a management class for my current job position. And the art of positive reinforcement always worked better with the pre-schoolers in my sunday school class than correction and lecturing ever did. I’ve dealt with nasty bosses too, and nothing can disarm them quicker than you saying “I understand how frustrating this is for you. How can I help you get what you need for future reference?” So, great book! It’s helped me a lot with how I deal with others.
As for Jerry,
I agree. If I’m unlucky I might get into a real fight once or twice my entire life. I do think our attacks are formulated to simulate weapon strikes. However, I tend to see the attacks as points of projection as well. Aikido is a living breathing art, so in a way I can see how understanding the points of projection can help you develop your techniques for self defense against an untrained fighter. However again, most people who pick fights on the streets, and most people who try to mug you aren’t going to give overly committed strikes. Everyone is a jabber.
grassHopper: No, I’m not saying that. (Sometimes my rhetorical flourishes get the better of me.) Aikido can’t help me formulate a legal argument, for example.
As for your boss, well, it’s your paycheck….
Actually, I was in a full-fledged street fight, literally in the street, not so long ago. I think it was a pretty typical fight, except that one of the parties was trained in Aikido.
Aikido is useful in avoiding or even winning a fight before it begins. But sometimes it is needed to protect others and to keep the peace through subduction.
Without retelling the entire story, I will say that my attacker (uke) initiated the fight via a sucker slap to the head that knocked my glasses off (yes, I was too close–practice maai!). He then came at me with wild-swinging (very committed) slugs (yokomenuchi) to the head. It happened much faster than we ever train on the mat and it was over in about 3 minutes. It wasn’t pretty, but he never landed another of those punches and I ended the fight with a couple of direct iriminage to the face (and without the use of my eyes).
Our attacks and our responses in Aikido are very real and very applicable to modern streetfighting (general mayhem). I am certain I would have been pummeled without my training. Don’t take my word for it; look to police and military peacekeepers all over that have adopted aikido techniques as a way to subdue and disarm without serious injury or death.
**street fighter: alpha gold”— “FIGHT!”
Buck, let’s talk about your altercation, which (thank heavens), you emerged unharmed.
A (gentle) question: Are you sure this wasn’t a failure in your Aikido?
Like I mentioned previously, my belief is that Aikido principles are highly relevant to physical and other types of aggression, including street brawls. The attacks, not so much.
So, what are these principles? A few, off the top of my head: awareness, maai, and an open, non-aggressive stance.
I remember well your story regarding the fight. (Of course, if I’m mistaken in any of the particulars, please correct me.)
My understanding is that you were confronting a jerk and a bully. However…you were in his space, with an aggressive finger-pointing posture. If I recall correctly, you were also on his property.
Looking at this objectively, with the luxury of time and distance, I see three things that were, perhaps, missing in your Aikido that afternoon:
Awareness. In particular, of his possible violent reaction.
Maai. You were in his driveway, up close, and pointing your finger at him.
And a confrontational attitude. Yes, you were upset with him. Yes, he deserved it, in spades. However….
Thank heavens you were able to pull off that irimi nage to his chin. (And other martial arts have techniques similar to irimi nage. That doesn’t make your technique, however, Kali or bare knuckle boxing).
Again, I certainly think you were justified in your anger towards this fellow. I’m thankful you weren’t seriously injured. But this is not, I think, an example of your Aikido working.
Something to think about.
One last comment.
If you believe that Aikido attacks are meant to simulate street attacks, rather than weapon attacks, why don’t we study jabs, take-downs, kicks to the shins, etc.?
Why the emphasis on a committed strike, as opposed to a feint, followed by a strike with the other hand? Might it be that we assume uke is wielding a two handed weapon? Like a sword?
And so nobody misinterprets my posts….I think Buck is one of the finest Aikidoka I’ve met. I continue to learn a great deal from him, whenever we train together. I’m envious of his technique!
Peace.
I don’t think his aikido was a failure; neither he or his attacker came out of it seriously injured! I think the main point you are missing here is why he is confronting him in the first place. I have never heard this story before, so I don’t know all the facts. However, you state that his anger was justified. So what’s wrong with an irimi-nage when it was (probably) in his right to punch the tar out of his face?
Sure, aikido attacks probably aren’t meant to simulate actual 21st century attacks, but didn’t O’Sensei teach Takemusu Aiki (Courageous and Creative living)? No one is going to come up to me with shomenuchi or even an aikido version tsuki in this day and age, but that doesn’t mean I can’t use a technique to neutralize whatever they try on me. Buck is living proof of this.
To be clear, Buck has beautiful Aikido. I just don’t think *this* incident is a good example.
Whether Buck had the “right” to defend himself is orthogonal to the issue of whether he was performing Aikido, as opposed to, say, bare knuckle boxing.
For example, I have the “right” to assembly. That doesn’t mean I’m performing Aikido while standing in the public square.
One more point. (Yet again!)
Kotegaeshi, nikkyo, et. al. are not unique to Aikido. There are only so many ways to hurt your fellow man (or woman).
The question we’re all dancing around is what makes Aikido unique. Is it just conditioning and physical technique, as Buck seems to suggest? Does his intent when entering the confrontation matter? Does calling it a confrontation (or fight, or brawl) already take it outside the scope of Aiki?
I would note that both you and MM appear to agree with my belief that Aikido attacks aren’t intended to simulate “street” attacks. Is that correct?
Regarding yokomen and a roundhouse punch (or “slug”, as you put it), the physical dynamic of the attacks are completely dissimilar.
With yokomen, the elbow is positioned inwards, and uke completes the attack with kokyu-ho. It is entirely consistent with a sword cut, and it doesn’t expose the elbow outwards.
A roundhouse punch exposes the elbow outward, and does not rely on a kokyu-ho motion. It is inconsistent with a sword cut, (and our other strikes in Aikido).
Superficially, the same. In practice, worlds apart.
To paint a clearer picture:
We were in the street in front of my neighbor’s house: neutral ground and public property. He was in his car and had yelled out to my neighbor, an elderly man, and me, challenging us.
I don’t think the incident was a failure in my Aikido. I failed in getting too close, wagging my finger, and getting blindsided, but I succeeded in protecting my neighbor and myself from serious harm and in ending his reign of neighborhood intimidation–and he was not injured either. In fact, when our fight ended, he was genuinely perplexed at the outcome.
I have always understood Aikido attacks to be representative of the broad array of possible attacks we can expect in combat. Yokomenuchi represents an attack to the side of the head or body, whether as a roundhouse punch or kick or a chop to the head. Tsuki is a direct attack to the front of the body, whether head, torso, or groin, punch or kick. Accumulating a variety of techniques allows the accomplished Aikidoist to select the appropriate response and modify it on the fly.
Roundhouse, hook, slug, yokomenuch: I’ve found the same Aikido techniques apply, in practice. In fact, keeping it real was one of Glen’s themes and I recall more than one class where our attacks were full-on roundhouse punches in place of traditional yokomenuchi. The Aikido worked. Maybe it’s time we revisited this on the mat.
I miss Glen. I really enjoyed his classes.
I don’t recall the class where he taught a roundhouse attack, but no matter. It would have been interesting.
I’d point out though, (and without any disrespect to Glen’s considerable skill), that the shihans do not teach yokomenuchi as a roundhouse punch. I’ve never seen this in New York, or at any of the seminars I’ve attended.
And remember, they are responsible for transmitting correct Aikido to us. If they don’t do it, in my book it’s not Aikido.
To summarize my points:
1. My belief is that Aikido empty hand attacks are derived from weapon attacks, such as the sword and spear.
2. Aikido attacks have little in common with “street” attacks. If Aikido was intended to teach us how to fight on the street, we would learn take-downs, jabs, shin scrapes, etc.
3. Going a bit deeper with Aikido attacks, although it can be instructive to view an Aikido attack as a vector and point of projection, ultimately this study lends itself more to tai-jutsu, and body positioning / balance. If you want to learn how to defend yourself against a boxer, take boxing. If you want to learn how to defend yourself against a wrestler, take wrestling.
4. Aikido principles are highly relevant to different forms of aggression, including bar fights.
5. Going further, the techniques we learn in Aikido also work in altercations. However, other martial arts, such as Hapkido, also teach kotegaeshi, irimi-nage, etc. Just because we perform a technique does not mean we are performing Aikido, any more than we are performing Hapkido. Aikido is budo, and it is not about fighting, it is about not fighting. Aikido is more than just a collection of techniques.
6. Buck has very nice Aikido. 🙂
Budo is the way of the warrior, and it looks like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN7yn0XOSMQ
Not to be pedantic, but budo implies personal development. Bujutsu is focused on the physical aspect of fighting.
Are you saying that Aikido, as budo, is irrelevant to personal growth? Was that O’Sensei’s message? 😉
And not to be too snarky, (well…), but I don’t learn my Aikido from a few dudes on YouTube. (Or books, or blogs….) I learn it from, you know, our shihans. 🙂
Peace, brother.
In all seriousness, tell me which points you disagree with. And then give me your well-reasoned reply.
I’m genuinely curious. (I’m actually a bit nonplussed that we disagree. To me this is obvious stuff).
Watch the interviews of the shihans on the NY Aikikai anniversary tapes. There are many references to Aikido as budo–and not as zen-peaceful-make love not war budo–but martial, tough, focused, do or die budo. If you are looking to the samurai as our Aikido forefathers, well, by now your head would be rolling.
Buck, you misunderstand me. I’ve actually spoken to the instructors on that videotape. In New York and elsewhere.
I think I’ve made my position clear, in this post.
You’ve also not demonstrated to me the very real differences between yokomenuchi and a roundhouse punch, as explained in this post. And this is just one example among many!
Which of my five points do you disagree with? And why?
I’m going to add a sixth point.
6. Only the shihans have received full transmission of the art. (In bujutsu, full transmission is signified by the menkyo kaiden license. In budo, full transmission is generally signified by either the 8th dan rank or shihan title). Our role as students, in fact our only role, is to receive the art from the shihans as they teach it.
This is the essence of personal transmission in the martial arts. To put it bluntly, if the shihans don’t teach it, then it’s not Aikido. It’s hubris to think otherwise.
Only when the art has been fully transmitted, (i.e. as a shihan or 8th dan), is the canon inherited by the practitioner. At that point, it is yours to do with as you wish, whether you incorporate other martial styles, disband it entirely, or treat it as a Sunday social with ice cream and cookies. Until then, nada.
So, at the level we’re at, incorporating jabs, roundhouse punches, etc. into Aikido is, in my opinion, flat out wrong, because the shihans don’t teach Aikido this way.
What is this personal development you speak of? How have you developed through budo? How has it benefited you?
Well, I met my wife through Aikido.
I consider that a pretty big benefit. 🙂
Not that that’s insignificant, but anything else?
I use Aikido everday. For example, when mediating opposing viewpoints, or dealing with ego related issues.
BTW, where are you? I’m at the dojo for open mat.
I’m at home eating pizza, trying to get my computer drive to work for this church video project I’m working on, and praying for you.
You should also pray for MM. I just beat her in chess, twice. 🙂
(In all seriousness, she’s a talented chess player. I just got lucky.)
I will, but you’ve been on my mind.
Nah, Jerry didn’t get lucky. I don’t think before I move. I know all the rules and positions, but I never think. I’m a woman of action. 0_0
And personally, Aikido has been a benefit to me in the short time I’ve been at it mentally and emotionally. All things are used for good in their ends.
btw: I want both ice cream and cookies
I was recently corrected on some points that I had made on a post. To clearify, I nor my source know anything about boxing. That covers everything… Enjoy :~)
1. Yay Buck!!
2. Arguing what is or what isnt aikido is kind of a circular arguement. The only person that can answer that has a picture hanging up at the front of the dojo. When that first punch, kick, jab, roundhouse, beer bottle, baseball bat, bullet comes at my head, philosophical Zen-budo-harmony-balance-aiki-transendence thinking goes out the window
The level of threat I am faced with will be met accordingly, drunk friend gets and irmi nage. doped up felon gets a kote-gashi (spell check). man with a bat gets a shattered rib cage, man with a knife gets 5000 volts, man with a gun gets a .40 cal.
Actually, DK, arguing “what is and isn’t Aikido” isn’t circular. There is a definite answer, according to Japanese martial tradition. You look to those who have fully received the canon. In bujutsu, this is signified by the menkyo kaiden license. In budo, an 8th dan or shihan.
I’m sorry, but you’re simply wrong.
And the whole zen thing that Buck alludes to is a strawman argument (i.e., completely fabricated out of thin air). He has yet to respond to my six points which clearly state my position. Or my question regarding yokomenuchi.
One more time, here, here, and here.
(Dee and I are sorry for your loss. Again, let me know if there is anything we can do for you or your Mom).